Gracie Abrams and Olivia Rodrigo, who have become pop music stars since they first connected on Instagram more than five years ago, reunited to talk about their friendship, life, and career in a Spotify conversation posted Tuesday (July 7).
And while the friends and former tourmates had a lot to talk about, they of course spent a lot of time together talking about one of their favorite things: songwriting, how they felt they had been “careless” with the way they handled the subject matter, and how they had struggled to find love in the past. With the release of Abrams’ new album, Daughter from Hell, just days away, Rodrigo bursts into praise, revealing that one of his favorite songs from the new album is “Afflictions.”
“It feels innocent, but it also feels very grown-up,” the two-time Grammy Award winner said, noting that it is the only straight love song on Daughter from Hell. “I feel that love is not superficial, but very deep.”
“That’s true,” Abrams agreed, revealing that she finds it difficult to write about love. “I don’t really write about it. When I tried to write about it before, the actual feeling faded a bit. But… [song] It’s very real to me. ”
From the sounds of it, “Afflictions” seems to be about Abrams’ relationship with Paul Mescal, whom she has been dating for about two years. In a recent Vogue cover story, she confessed that being with him makes her feel “safe and stable” in a way she never felt in any of her previous relationships.
Meanwhile, the Hal David Starlight Award winner spoke with Rodrigo about the more negative relationships explored in Daughter from Hell, explaining that he took a different approach than in the past. “I was careful to write about conflict and pain, not in a judgmental position, but because I’ve been on both sides, like the protagonist and antagonist of each song,” Abrams said.
“There are also songs about tough friendships and kind of breakups…I used to write songs that were careless about how that affected the subject matter, and I don’t like that,” she continued. “I wish I could go back and fix it. And I want to move forward with this album. I think there’s a way to write music about people and be as honest as you want and need to be and deliver it without being cruel.”
“What I think is so beautiful is that she has a lot of restraint,” Rodrigo agreed. “[That’s] Very difficult to take off. Even when I’m writing a song, I end up having a knee-jerk reaction of, “Well, here’s everything.” You expressed it so beautifully and skillfully. ”
The video was released just nine days before the release of Daughter from Hell, Abrams’ first album since her breakthrough second LP, The Secret of Us, which peaked at No. 2 on the Billboard 200. Fans have heard two songs from the project so far: lead single “Hit the Wall,” which peaked at No. 34 on the Billboard Hot 100, and “Look at My Life,” which debuted on June 25.
As the two women reminisce at the beginning of their Spotify chat, Abrams and Rodrigo recently had their new album, “You Look Pretty Sad for a Girl in Love,” which hit No. 1 on the Billboard 200 in its first two weeks, but their memories go back a long way. The former Disney Channel star has spoken candidly about how Abrams inspired him to write and post his future Hot 100 hits on Instagram, and the “That’s So True” singer ended up opening for Rodrigo on his 2022 Sour Tour.
“She gave me a great opportunity,” Abrams said in Rodrigo’s 2025 Billboard cover story. “I will forever love her dearly.”
Rodrigo added at the time, “Gracie has a very unique voice when it comes to songwriting.” “I think it’s rare for someone so young to have already established her own lane. Even if she doesn’t sing, you can hear a song and immediately know if it’s a Gracie Abrams song.”
Watch Abrams and Rodrigo’s full conversation above.
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