The first hints of the brain that developed on Earth about 600 million years ago can now be found in some versions of organs in almost every animal in the world.
Humans have the largest brain size compared to the body size of any species, and the impressive ability to accumulate knowledge over time. Still, the human brain is very similar to the brains of other animals. They have the same electro- and chemical signaling systems.
In “Horizon: Secrets of the Brain,” Alkariri investigates animals and fossils, shaping an understanding of how the brain evolved over millions of years, and scientists unravel the puzzles of each piece. Live Science chose the alkaline brain for the show, how the human brain has evolved, and what the evolution of the past 600 million years means for us today. “The Secret of the Brain” will premiere in the UK on September 29th.
Sophie Berdugo: We usually think you are in the realm of theoretical physics.
Jim Al Kariri: Because I’m playing “The Life Scientific” on BBC Radio 4. “This is an area I don’t work for. It’s not my specialty, but I want to talk to people who know what they’re talking about.” So I thought this was a great opportunity to learn about something.
After all, the human brain is the most complex system in the entire universe, so we don’t know how it works. We are beginning to learn about human consciousness and more, but one thing we lack is that we have not understood how it fits into evolutionary history.
We know that humans are smarter and smarter than any other animal, and that is usually [the explanation is] “Oh, that’s because we developed a language, or because we have the opposite thumb.” But I knew it had to be more than that. And what I found fascinating was to delve into this long story about how the brain evolved and evolved and grew over hundreds of millions of years, not necessarily the human brain.
SB: Was there any questions in the docusary that ultimately discovered that science actually didn’t know the answer yet?
Jak: Well, certainly the idea of what separates humans from our primate cousins. The usual argument is that we have developed languages or have the theory of metacognition and mind. [Metacognition refers to an awareness and understanding of one’s own thought processes, and theory of mind refers to an ability to understand that other individuals have their own perspectives and mental states.]
But of course, other primates have it too. This idea of metacognition, [and] Other primates have it, as they can imagine themselves in other people’s shoes.
Next comes the development of language. But one of the surprising things I learned with this program was that other primates, such as gorillas, have no language, but develop a syntax. Syntax is not necessarily related to language, language, or grammar, but it is broader, meaning that it places things in some degree of logical order. It is also a form of syntax, such as how a gorilla reaches and grabs some nettles, and how they fold and roll them into a bowl to eat them. So the idea that syntax evolved before language, and that was an important step, was, “So, what separates us?”
Then I say that the final part of the program is because we are social animals. The “social brain hypothesis” explains the existence of such a large brain because it interacts with complex social systems. But other primates have it too – bonobos and chimpanzees.
Anything that separates humans from other higher mammals…it’s not because we created a complex world. It’s something else.
So this question was left with that there are all that we thought should separate from other primates (language, metacognition, social brain) present in other primates. We are much more complicated in terms of thinking and thinking than other primates, and not just a bit. So, that’s what I still feel, personally, I don’t have a clear answer.
SB: At the end of the second episode, I thought there were so many similarities to some species that are far-reaching to us, like the closest living relatives and marine mammals. But how did our brain evolution finally allow us to have this conversation now and think about how other animals think?
Jak: My view is that there is a kind of bootstrap mechanism going on, as the world around us becomes more complicated and the complexity of our actions and interactions increases. It’s so much that your brain needs to process data, analyze it, calculate it, and more. Therefore, from an intellectual perspective, there is no particular difference between other higher mammals and human brains. It’s just a problem.
We live in a complex society now, but we don’t say we are smarter than we were five, six, or seven thousand years ago. Evolution doesn’t work that fast. And they didn’t have books, electronics, etc., and they were as smart as us.
So anything that separates humans from other higher mammals, whether it’s a primate or a dolphin, isn’t because we created a complicated world. It’s something else. I’m sure it’s not a banary simple thing like the opposite thumb. Yes, I’m sure it’ll help, but that’s not the answer.
SB: The show explores the adaptation and change of the hand of the social environment as separate events when ultimately evolved linked.
Jak: Ah, absolutely, yes, and I think that’s one of the drawbacks of having to tell a story like this. You need to disassemble it into stairs.
All talking about Cambrian explosions and early ocean creatures before the eyes developed before the brain are all very well. Great, it’s pretty pretty. So there are certain consecutive stories that can be told, then there are various extinction events that accelerated evolution for survival purposes.
But you are right. Certainly, when, say, 10 million years and the last arrival of primates evolve, many different factors compete with each other, with bootstrap and interconnection. But to tell the story, it needs to be broken down into steps. Sometimes, “Well, after first having to develop this, then once I sorted it out, I had to develop something else.”
SB: Within 600 million years covered by the program that you want to spend a day, was there a period to see exactly how creatures of the time acted, survived, and how it relates to brain evolution?
JAK: What I found very fascinating was the mass extinction of the Permian, sometimes called “great death” and almost all life disappeared. Volcanic eruptions, climate change, ocean acidification, etc. But that 5% [of marine animals] Survived. [90% of life on Earth was killed.]
I created my work on camera programmatically. So I said, “They could slide under the mud and find every corner.” But it’s fascinating to watch. What kind of environment was it 250 million years ago, when 95% of all lives were wiped out, and 5% survived? Have they just been lucky? Did they just bow their heads? Or did they have something different about them that the other 95% didn’t have the fact that they survived?
They were not just smart. The brains had to evolve to deal with new challenges, so they had to be smarter to survive. However, I was less grateful that the mass extinction of the Permian period stopped life from continuing on Earth. It’s attractive. Thankfully, some have survived.
SB: I think we can be grateful that there were people who survived!
We are now worried about climate change, but the climate change that took place after the mass extinction of the Permian era has been far more extreme. What kind of life could still exist? I think it’s attractive.
SB: Absolutely, that was what I wanted to ask you. How does learning about brain evolution help us understand ourselves and the world, especially in light of challenges like the emergence of artificial intelligence (AI) you touched on in the show?
Jak: I think it’s an important lesson to be able to understand the uniqueness of the human brain, or something about our brain, that makes us human.
We share our relationship with these complex structures and societies, and we share cultures, beliefs, memories, history, and more. I expect this to happen when I develop AI. I’ll be aware of it someday. It is sensory and self-aware, but it is not human. Because it wasn’t in line with the journey we’ve been through. It cannot be simulated or replicated.
And I don’t think we should. Why do you want to create artificial intelligence like humans? Now, you have a human to do whatever you want to make an AI. And if it becomes conscious and self-aware, it should have as many rights as humans. It is alive and sensory, and then it is not just a machine.
It’s not consciousness that you think is clever, but your dog is conscious.
To help people understand how special their brains are and how special humans are. [it] It seems we have never learned any lessons about exploiting those aspects of what we say. We sometimes forget empathy, compassion, kindness. Such things make us human.
And you think that the current problems and challenges we face in the 21st century are a reminder of how long the journey is, not human, but our brains, the central mechanisms, were there when we got to now. Somehow it will be very tragic.
SB: I was really impressed by the similarities that the show has highlighted between humans and other life on Earth. For example, at the very beginning of the first episode, you talk about zooplankton and how they have the same sticks and cone cells they have today.
Jak: Axons and neurons have evolved to help with specific tasks. Light-sensitive receptors had to send signals to motion cells to instruct early organisms to move towards or away from the light. But because those axons and neurons are what we have in the brain now, they obviously evolved to create specific tasks and became obviously useful. And as they became more connected to each other, their complexity served more and more different purposes.
So the brain has something in common. And of course we use neural networks [computer systems inspired by the network structures of the brain] Develop artificial intelligence. So, the trick is so convenient that it becomes the standard way to develop machine learning with AI, despite the fact that AI is still ridiculous. They trick us, they think they are smart and we are having conversations with them, but I always say, “How smart about chat is, but it’s not conscious, but your dog is conscious.”
Chatgpt, midway through a conversation, leaving your laptop for a week’s holiday, ChatGpt responds, “Oh, I wonder where the gym went. I had a great chat. But your dog misses you. Your dog talks to you and it may seem as smart as you, but it has something special called consciousness that AI doesn’t have yet.
Editor’s Note: This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.
“Secrets of the Brain” will be available in the UK from September 29th on BBC Two. For UK residents overseas using a valid TV license, you will need to tune to iPlayer as usual using a VPN or a virtual private network. A colleague at Techradar recommends Nordvpn.
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